The Harvest Moon Consortium

[Guest]

After learning that using Hac files to “Override” general content would slow down and utterly shrink my Mods into oblivion,

I began exploring the infinite depth of the Overrides. I’m sharing with you one of the newer Files I found that is 1.67 Compatible.

The Override Pack I found contains work from some of the community that posts here.
I didn’t even bother going into Overrides that anyone considered Obscene so no one bring that up please

Various’s - Fleshmelter's Override package
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=pr ... ail&id=745

I found a few bugs in the Forest texture where the road and wall tile with a tree on a corner was inverted - All Drakkens fault I assume j/k

I believe that this Override Pack also contained an older copy of Hands by KuraiRyu without the Color

Also I couldn’t get Lisa’s Wings to work with or without any Hac’s while running 1.67 which really bummed me out – why Hasn’t Lisa ever messaged on these boards anyway?

I reported these problems to the author, not sure he can do anything but someone had to say something. I also Invited Various to check out our forums, for all I know he is already a member here.
At this time I would like to make my key statement. Would it be possible for CTP to go above and beyond exhalents, Could we form a CTP Grade Override Package?

Doesn’t retexturing preexisting environments, fall under Community Texture Pack

Its safe to say that standard Bioware Content is aging and its quality is not going to keep up with our newer additions. Without adding Hacs would it be possible for us to make optional overrides available to all players with the best quality.

Standardizing Overrides like Various here has done proves that beatify quiet literally is in the eye of the beholder, or anyone who happens to have the Overrides

I’m not asking to stop working on New tiles, I know many of you out their have skills in very different area’s some of you fix maps and others make new Textures

There is no real limit to what we can Override, we just need better tools to do it faster and more efficiently

Please remember to Vote for Various! :z_grouphu

[Primogenitor]

[QUOTE=Shioni]After learning that using Hac files to “Override” general content would slow down and utterly shrink my Mods into oblivion,[/quote]Got any proof to back that up? Cos I dont believe it would make a significant impact compared to override. Afterall, both systems have to sort through the same list of files.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

[quote=Shioni]After learning that using Hac files to “Override” general content would slow down and utterly shrink my Mods into oblivion,[/quote]

This part doesn't make sense at all. Sorry, rephrase that question, if there is one buried in there.

[quote]Doesn’t retexturing preexisting environments, fall under Community Texture Pack[/quote]

It might, but there is no team doing a community texture pack.

[quote]Its safe to say that standard Bioware Content is aging and its quality is not going to keep up with our newer additions. Without adding Hacs would it be possible for us to make optional overrides available to all players with the best quality.[/quote]
On this one, well, yes, it would be possible except for a couple of issues.

1) Haks OVERRIDE the override directory. Meaning, that even if you do have files in YOUR override, if the mod or PW uses a hak, that hak takes precedence and totally ignores the override directory completely.

2) Haks are MUCH easier to manage than having thousands of files in your override directory. They are also easier for people to understand. Consider it this way. I can build a mod that requires 1,200 files of new or changed content. I can either place them into ONE hak file and have you copy it to your hak folder OR, I can give you all 1,200 files individually and have you copy those into your override directory.

Which would you prefer as an end user? 1,200 files that you have to figure out if they are each up-to-date, or just one .hak file that contains all the new content?

[quote]Standardizing Overrides like Various here has done proves that beatify quiet literally is in the eye of the beholder, or anyone who happens to have the Overrides[/quote]
Yep, and we are attempting to help 'clean up' some of that 'superior' content to make it play nice with your mods. We are helping to 'fix' content that was previously released, but still very buggy. We are also adding additional content to some sets, and adding completely new, never released sets, out to you.. once we get done that is.

[quote]I’m not asking to stop working on New tiles, I know many of you out their have skills in very different area’s some of you fix maps and others make new Textures[/quote]
Good. Cause we ain't stopping until we can get some of these sets out to you.

[quote]There is no real limit to what we can Override, we just need better tools to do it faster and more efficiently [/quote]
There are many such tools, and one of those is called a .HAK file.

[quote]Please remember to Vote for Various! [/quote]
Iwill take a look, but seriously, overrides don't much interest me. They are only useable by a few people that can properly manage files, AND they make a hell of a mess of your override directory, thus, slowing down your game play. It's a whole lot easier for NWN to find a file or content inside ONE file (a .hak). Than it is for NWN to have to wait for your computer to search through 1,200 or more files in your local HD's override directory. It has to search and search and search...

Anyway, at least you are learning a bit more about how NWN works.

Overrides DO have their place. In particular, the OHS system by OldMansBeard is a primary example of how GOOD an override can work and is the only one I use at all.

I am sure there are other override systems or objects or whatever available on the vault. I just hate having a screwed up file system on my computer!

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bannor Bloodfist]
2) Haks are MUCH easier to manage than having thousands of files in your override directory. They are also easier for people to understand. Consider it this way. I can build a mod that requires 1,200 files of new or changed content. I can either place them into ONE hak file and have you copy it to your hak folder OR, I can give you all 1,200 files individually and have you copy those into your override directory.

Which would you prefer as an end user? 1,200 files that you have to figure out if they are each up-to-date, or just one .hak file that contains all the new content?
[/QUOTE]

I think you missed my whole pint here. I don’t intend to build with Overrides just use them to abuse my god given right to see hands with fingers and caves with roofs on any mod.

Also their is a magic macro that people could be tipped off on (Ctl+A) It will select the entire contents of a folder so that you can either delete or move it; its the entire principle of what a little program a friend of my is working on called //C_Override It will basically allow you to group any files in a folder without moving them and then save the group, so you can add or remove overrides.

I’m going to look into the OHS system to figure out what angle you’re coming from.
We might be reading the same book but I’m a slow reader

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Primogenitor]Got any proof to back that up? Cos I dont believe it would make a significant impact compared to override. Afterall, both systems have to sort through the same list of files.[/QUOTE]

I have a program I found on the vault called (Spentznaz_ADMIRAL's Online Character Creation Extender) Anyway I was told the whole reason that it works is because the Override Folder reads files when you load the game.

What I was saying before, is that since the files are not attaching Overrides to my module builds, I can use smaller or less Hacs and thus free up more space.

Why use a Hac for the new Tileset, Neverwinter Roofers Mines when we can Override the standard mines.

Also, I don’t think Overrides slow the game down any more then Hacs do, but I could be wrong.

[Primogenitor]

[QUOTE=Shioni]I have a program I found on the vault called (Spentznaz_ADMIRAL's Online Character Creation Extender) Anyway I was told the whole reason that it works is because the Override Folder reads files when you load the game.[/quote]Haks are read when you load a module too, the only difference is in multiplayer override applies before character creation, and haks afterwards.
[quote]What I was saying before, is that since the files are not attaching Overrides to my module builds, I can use smaller or less Hacs and thus free up more space.[/quote]Define "space" :p: Something in the override and something in a hak take the same space on the hard disk. In fact, I'd hazard that haks would take less space due to windows 16k file chunk size (or whatever it is, Im sure someone can explain it better). If your refering to the 16000 contained files per .hak or .mod file limit mask mentioned in another thread, then note that is 16k per hak. 2 haks, 32k; 4 haks, 64k individual files; and so on.

[quote]Why use a Hac for the new Tileset, Neverwinter Roofers Mines when we can Override the standard mines.[/quote]Why use the override when we can use a hak for it?

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Shioni]\
I’m going to look into the OHS system to figure out what angle you’re coming from.
We might be reading the same book but I’m a slow reader[/QUOTE]

My hat is off to OldMansBeard, the OHS system is a very nice tool.

I’m giving up try to explain the whole Overrides thing after this…

The overrides I have looked into are NOT for builders. They are not for making modules. They have only one purpose, to make NWN look better for the individuals that download.

Sure you can make a Hac but the whole Idea behind a Community Pack is for people that don’t want to down load a new Hac every time they try a new server.

[Bannor Bloodfist]

[quote=Shioni]My hat is off to OldMansBeard, the OHS system is a very nice tool.

I’m giving up try to explain the whole Overrides thing after this…

The overrides I have looked into are NOT for builders. They are not for making modules. They have only one purpose, to make NWN look better for the individuals that download.

Sure you can make a Hac but the whole Idea behind a Community Pack is for people that don’t want to down load a new Hac every time they try a new server.[/quote]

Which is the WHOLE point behind the Community Tileset Project, to create a set of '.haks' that you will already have, IF you download them once, you only need them once. Like the CEP adds content that many module builders use, but that those same module builders do NOT have to include in their own custom haks.

Regardless, for this 'pack' to work locally, in the override, or for a server, the server would still have to tell you to grab the files, and you would still have to download them from somehwere. So, it's basically the same thing. The end user would still have to HAVE the content on their localy computer, whether it be in hak form or individual files stored in their override directory.

Overrides are cool, and as Primogenitor stated, they DO take affect before module load, so in the case of character creation, they are available to allow you to customize your character. But, that is about the onlly thing that override gives you that a hak file does not. And, the hak file makes file management much easier.

So, both override and haks have the uses. For the community tileset project tilesets, we will distribute as haks. If you wish, you could then extract those files into your local override directory, but there would be no reason to do so except that it would allow you to have tilesets available for building in the mod, without having to add the hak to the mod. Anyway, it's a toss up on which makes sense for which reasons.

Ours will be available in hak form. You can change that locally if you so choose. Just be warned, that if you build a mod requiring tiles that are in YOUR override directory, then you have to send those tiles and all their associated parts / pieces to whomever would play that mod. For your LOCAL only use, it would be no problem, but once you try to share that mod with others, they would probably freak out on having to copy several hundred to several thousand files into their local override directory.

[OldMansBeard]

[QUOTE=Shioni]My hat is off to OldMansBeard, the OHS system is a very nice tool.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

There is a special reason why the OHS uses override and not a hak. It's because I quite often download and try out new modules, I want to take the same henchmen with me wherever I go, and I don't want the bother of editing every new module to attach my own hakpak.

It would actually work better if it was in a hak. I'd be able to do some cleverer things and the game would run faster. I don't know why, but I've tested it most carefully and it's true. If I put my scripts in a hak, the game runs faster than if I leave them in override.

NWN is optimised on the assumption that custom content is all in hakpaks and the override is empty. That's what Bioware decided and we have to have fairly good reasons for "going against the grain". I chose to go the less-than-optimal way and I'm content to take the performance hit.

BTW, there is something about overrides that you may not have realised. You can't reskin Bioware models with overrides. That's because texture packs are imported into the module at load time and module beats override. If you want to reskin tiles, placeables, armour parts, creatures, whatever, you have to use a hakpak anyway.

Performance apart, it's okay to throw all your files into override if you only ever play one module. Otherwise, it makes for a maintenance nightmare. What do you do if the hakpaks used in one module have files with the same name as in another module but they are different files? Or different versions? Which ones do you dump into your override? You would need to restock your override every time you switched to another module. Hakpaks are much easier. It's automatic.

Some of us remember when NWN only supported one hakpak per module. Every piece of custom content for that module had to be in that one hakpak. You needed a different hakpak for every module. So popular content had to be duplicated. It was impossible to factor out anything. It was awful.

Say "hi" to your new henchmen from me.

[Guest]

You can "reskin" models for yourself by using your override folder, it won't work for anyone but you, however.